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| 1 | American Ford trucks. in category Models As you may be aware London Transport received a batch of American Ford COE trucks as service vehicles. An East European plastic kit maker, ACE will be producing a 1/72 scale kit of these trucks later this year. They are already producing a normal control model that can be modified to a UK version. |
26/01/2024 | Phillip Walton |
| 2 | 23rd September 2023 - Orpington Garage open day plus LTSV social in category Events Go-Ahead London is holding an open day at its Orpington Garage this Saturday (23rd September, 10am-4pm). The same day, there will also be an LTSV social event in Bromley South, intended to mark the 20th anniversary of the launch of the first LTSV website (although this actually occurs a week later on 1st October). I will be in the Richmal Crompton pub, opposite Bromley South Station, from 2pm onwards. It would be good to see you there, whether you are an old-hand or someone I have not yet met. If you want any further details, please contact me by e-mail. |
18/09/2023 | Thomas Young |
| 3 | SV or not SV? in category Other Checking some old notes from Plumstead (PDD) 7/8/2021. One vehicle that I could not find on LTSV, about which I have no details other than the reg, which was, curiously, KX20LUL. So perhaps a coincidental non-SV? |
28/07/2023 | abgen |
| 4 | Spotting in category Other I am planning to go to the Acton Town depot off Bollo Lane. Is there a particular time in which I may see these vehicles going in an out. Thanks in advance |
20/07/2023 | Beatleman68 |
| 5 | Fake SV on ebay in category Other I was recently sent a link to an item on ebay which may be of interest. It was an R-prefix LDV Pilot van in a dark blueish-green colour. It had been very neatly marked up as service vehicle number 4811L, complete with cabside LONDON TRANSPORT, ENGINEERING (BUS) and skirt legal lettering. The person obviously knew their stuff as the number chosen is age-appropriate and not otherwise used. However, the description given by the seller seems to wrongly give the impression that this was an actual LT vehicle! See https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LDV-Pilot-200-1-9D-1998-green-Ex-LONDON-TRANSPORT-ENGINEERING-Dept-/185862383800 for more. You can click on the vehicle photo to see more images. |
11/05/2023 | Thomas Young |
| 6 | SWB Low-Roof or L1H1? in category Vehicle Designs and Designations On this website I have usually used descriptive text to indicate the size of each vehicle, particular for types that are available in various lengths and/or heights. However, manufacturers are increasingly adopting a standardised abbreviated format for such information. For example, the shortest and lowest variant of a type will be L1H1. A longer version with the same height will be L2H1, while an even longer version with a taller body might be L3H2. Some types have numerous options. For example, Ford Transit chassis cabs run to L5H1, though the height information is less relevant for things like dropside trucks! I have recently started using these descriptors for some vehicles and I can see some advantages to them. Taking the new Vauxhall Vivaro-E vans being added to the Stagecoach fleet as an example, this type comes in two different lengths but both have the same wheelbase. So I would have to call the two variants 'SWB' and 'SWB EL' (for Extended Length) respectively. But why call them short wheelbase is there is no long wheelbase variant? Another small advantage is that 'L3H3' takes up less screen/paper space than 'LWB EL High Roof'. This can lead to less text-wrapping and better table layouts. So, perhaps I should standardise on the new format, at least for new vehicles. I doubt if any users have strong feelings about this but, if you do have a preference, please get in touch. There is a snag though. While some vehicle checking websites do have very detailed information, it is sometimes not completely accurate. Again taking the Stagecoach vans as an example, West Ham's DY22LDJ is listed as being L1H1 while Bromley's DY72XMA is L2H1. However, looking at the photos that I published a couple of weeks ago, I am fairly sure that both vans are actually L2H1. Mind you, this would still be an issue even if I 'translate' the sizes to the more descriptive versions. |
07/12/2022 | Thomas Young |
| 7 | Filling the gaps but also leaving stuff out in category Website General We recently received a list of the current RATP service vehicle fleet, which proved to be very useful. However, as is often the case, the list only provided some of the information (fleetnumber, registration and allocation). So where did all the other information come from? Well, the first port of call is any one of the various car checking websites. The DVLA has its own site, but others tend to provide more detailed information (such as models and specifications). This gave the vehicle type information, the colour and (using the dates of licensing and/or V5C issue) some indications of when the vehicles were acquired. I was curious about the Mitsubishi Fuso Canter truck in particular so I Googled the registration. This often gives little more than links back to LTSV but in this case I was lucky. A few years ago the vehicle had been sold to a dealer, who then posted a video of it on Youtube, seemingly their standard practice when selling vehicles. I then sent an e-mail around the gang of most prolific SV observers, outlining the additions and mentioning the video. One replied to say that, having watched the video, they had realised that they had seen the truck in Fulwell garage during the open day held a few months ago. It appears in some photos taken that day but, because it was right at the back, no further details could be seen. Another correspondent who had visited the open day recalled seeing one of the BYD cars. He wasn't sure if it was a service vehicle (it was in unmarked black) but he took a photo anyway. So, thanks to the data available on the internet, and to the conscientiousness (or perhaps prescience) of correspondents, I was able to add fairly full details of the vehicles to the database, and I will have at least one photo that can be added. This does all show how sometimes even incomplete information can be useful. Many thanks to the guys that helped with this, and to everyone who contributes sightings and notes to the website. It all helps. The second part of this post is about information that we have but that we do not show. The RATP list included a number of vehicles that turned out to be cars (of various types and colours). It was assumed that most of these were 'management' vehicles, and these are not normally added to LTSV. Exceptions will only be made if the information is already in the public domain, or if the vehicles are known to carry company lettering and/or livery. Obviously in some cases it is hard to be certain if a car is for use by management or as a crew ferry. Again, sightings will help. If you see something that seems to be a service vehicle but that is not on LTSV, please let me know about it. |
07/12/2022 | Thomas Young |
| 8 | 745J Matador STL body interchange. in category Vehicle Designs and Designations The records show that the stores body on Matador 108P was removed and put on chassis STL317 to produce stores lorry 745J. I have the Matador wheelbase at 14ft and the STL at 16ft 3in. That would imply an awful lot of work to enable the body exchange. Or do I have my Matador dimension wrong? Any help would be appreciated as I want to complete drawings so that I can scrtachbuild some Matador models. |
16/11/2022 | BJO |
| 9 | LCC Tramway manholes - for Damon in category Other Hallo Damon, I read your 'about you' and recalled that I have seen an LCC tram cover near Mornington Crescent station. It is near the bike stands, the approximate what3words location is: ///valid.theme.shave Also, near to Archway station on Holloway Road there are what appear to be tracks, for a short distance, between two buildings at: ///brush.former.expose Do you have a photo-sharing site where you post photos of your discoveries? I have a Flickr site at https://www.flickr.com/photos/15038/ although I have not managed yet to photograph either of my above findings! Cheers Dave |
23/10/2022 | Dave Warby |
| 10 | London Transport Service Vehicles - Historical Research Group in category Social I've just launched a new Facebook page to share information, ask questions, and discuss anything related to the service vehicles of yesteryear, their histories, their work, and the places and the people involved with them in any way. By being on FB we will be able to contact ex LT staff and others who have relevant knowledge but are not dedicated SV enthusiasts. It is hoped that over time we may be able to add information to the LTSV database on individual vehicles, and submit articles and documents covering broader topics. |
05/10/2022 | Clive G |
| 11 | Stockwell Garage Open Day (and other events) in June 2022 in category Events There will be an open day at Stockwell Bus Garage on Saturday 11th June 2022, to mark 70 years of operation. I will be going so if you want to meet up, drop me a line. The following day (Sunday 12th June) there will be a running day on route 81 with old (and some not-so-old) buses providing a free additional service on various sections between Hounslow and Windsor. On Sunday 26th June there are two events to choose from, with the Summer Gathering at the London Bus Museum in Brooklands AND an open day at Reading Buses garage in Great Knollys Street. |
21/05/2022 | Thomas Young |
| 12 | The new LTSV website in category Website General A lot of features of the new LTSV website are pretty much the same as on the old one, while a list of all the major changes can be found in the About pages. There are a couple of things that I probably should have tried improving. The process for adding sightings is still the same, with the choice of adding the location either by using a list of existing SV locations, a list of existing sighting locations, or a free-text entry box. This is not hugely intuitive but I think it is the best available solution. The other thing is that there is still no distinction between Withdrawn and Sold. In the database, vehicles can either be marked as Active or Withdrawn. Withdrawn is treated as synonymous with 'Sold' or 'Out of stock', so I should probably have added a third option for vehicles that are out of use but still owned. Ah well... Building this website, and the database that runs it, was a very big project and I would not be at all surprised if I have overlooked something or made some errors. It would be really helpful if you could let me know of any issues you encounter while using the site. Cheers. Tom |
01/04/2022 | Thomas Young |
| 13 | Underground vehicles c.1931 in category Central Fleet Owned Vehicles I have made an entry showing UF2638 as being converted to an 'Underground Railway Emergency Truck' numbered '22'. This information was obtained from Ian's Bus Stop. Has anyone further information on this, or any other vehicles in the series? |
28/01/2022 | Ray |
| 14 | Passing of Steve Howard in category Social I was deeply saddened to hear from Tom, last week, of Steve Howard's passing. I too had met Steve on a number of occasions, & had the good fortune to spend several 'night trips' with him, on my irregular visits to London. I greatly enjoyed his company, & his knowledge of Service Vehicles & their locations, was vast. I would like to extend my deepest sympathies to Steve's family and his other friends & colleagues, at this very difficult time. |
02/03/2021 | John Lloyd-Martin |
| 15 | TINY HK LWB Transit in category Models The Hong Kong company TINY HK are producing three models of the Mk. II (bullnose) LWB transit in 1/76 scale. The models are minibus, van and Wadham Stringer Ambulance. As they are produced for the Hong Kong market there are no retailers in the UK but they can be found on E-bay. Prices start at GBP12-15 each. |
21/01/2021 | Phillip Walton |
| 16 | Abellio - new vehicle in category Bus Company Vehicles There is a new vehicle with the reg of LG19DJE running around with Abellio engineering support markings. It appears to be allocated to Battersea. It is a white Citroen Dispatch with light bar. Could not see a fleet number on vehicle. |
12/03/2020 | Aycliffe |
| 17 | Sullivans new vehicle in category Bus Company Vehicles Sullivan's have purchased another second-hand Renault Zoe for use as a pool car - reg is GY65EYS, fleet number EC5. It is green in colour with company vinyls. |
18/09/2019 | Aycliffe |
| 18 | BTP ERU moves in category Locations Heard today spare ERU fleet and BTP 'tenders' being relocated to Finsbury Park from Acton due to site clearance . |
23/08/2019 | Rob Morel |
| 19 | Chaseside shovel in category Central Fleet Miscellaneous Vehicles KLB 876 is pictured in Rennie and Aldridge's superb book and I am wondering if anyone has some info or reasoned guesses as to the colour. Green or red seem to be the obvious choices. Many of these shovels were delivered to customers in red. I notice there is a small London Buses roundel on the side which is in sharp contrast to the colour of the shovel. I think this may rule out Chiswick Green. Any one want to start a debate, please. |
14/08/2019 | BJO |
| 20 | 448W in category Central Fleet Owned Vehicles This vehicle is described on this site and in LOTS Supplement 15 as a Stores Lorry. This makes sense as it was based at Garages for its early life and carried Trade Plates. However, LOTS Supplement 15B describes the vehicle as an Open Lorry and I have a photo showing just that. It is not carrying Trade Plates and its cargo is train wheel and axle sets. These clues suggest the picture was taken when 448W was at Chiswick, 1956 to 1962. Interestingly the cab has not been modified and still carries torpedo side lights mounted at the front of the cab side panels. The body has a bolster frame at the front but the dropsides look as if they have been fixed over the original body - the panels are not flush, they protrude over the rear wheel arch and the hinge straps do not appear to be attached to any hinge pins. Can anyone shed any light please. |
12/06/2019 | BJO |
| 21 | LUL Ford Transit van in 1/76 in category Models Thanks to Kev for spotting that Oxford Diecast are bringing out a 1:76 model of a Mk7 Ford Transit van in LUL livery. For some reason they refer to it as a Mk5. See https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/products/ford-transit-mk5-swb-low-roof-london-underground-76ft031. There is also apparently a DLR livery van coming out too. |
31/01/2018 | Thomas Young |
| 22 | Sprinters, Crafters and a MAN in category Vehicle Designs and Designations The Volkswagen Crafter was recognisably related to the Mercedes-Benz Sprinter, differing only around the front end. However, the two models were separated in 2017 when an all-new Crafter was launched. The new design is also sold as the MAN TGE and I was rather surprised to see a UK-registered one of these the other day. As far as I know this is the first time MAN has marketed a light commercial vehicle in the UK. This has no relevance to service vehicles at present but, since MAN trucks are quite popular for the central fleet, it is possible the type may feature eventually. |
13/12/2017 | Thomas Young |
| 23 | London Ambulance Service and other big fleets in category Other Companies I recently published a photo of a preserved London Fire Brigade recovery truck. Comments on this led me to a current fleetlist for the LFB, which I didn't know were still available. I was also rather surprised that the total LFB fleet (including a fair number of cars and other support vehicles) came to under 500 vehicles. This got me thinking about the sizes of other 'fleets' in the London area. I know that there are just about 10,000 red buses in London (more than ever before) but these are split across several companies. Other large users of vehicles would be the Royal Mail, the Metropolitan Police and the London Ambulance Service. Network Rail must have quite a lot as well. In a lull at work the other day I searched for a fleetlist for the Ambulance service. There were a couple on the 'What do they know' website, though most had parts of the requested information withheld for security reasons. I did find one recent list with fleetnumbers, types and allocations (but not registration numbers) and this showed several curious similarities. The LAS fleet has about 1,000 vehicles, pretty much the same as the liveried LUL/LBSL/TfL fleet. It uses four digit fleetnumbers allocated in chronological order, albeit without suffixes. By coincidence, the most recent deliveries to the LAS are in the 84xx series, only very slightly behind the SV fleet. The turnover of vehicles does seem to be somewhat lower, the average age being higher. One marked difference between the two fleets is that the LAS makes no use of Ford products (unless you include a handful of Ivecos). The most common type is the Mercedes Sprinter ambulance, along with quite a lot of Vauxhall Zafira and VW Tiguan response cars. |
12/12/2017 | Thomas Young |
| 24 | Era in category Website Guidance and Questions I tried using the 'era' search on Photos, but it didn't work. Anyone else had problems? |
25/05/2017 | rtwbus |
| 25 | New ERU fleet in category Central Fleet Owned Vehicles The twitter site run by British Transport Police and the joint BTP/LU 'Network Incident Response Managers' has posted a little tease of the new eru fleet @BTPNetworkResp with promises of more pics this week. |
08/01/2017 | Rob Morel |
| 26 | London Bus Museum in category Events Worth noting that the London Bus Museum at Brooklands have designated their October 2017 event as having a Service Vehicle theme. So plenty of time to stir up the owners of preserved sv's to come along and make it a show. Plenty on site at Brooklands plus a good examples tucked away in Acton. Maybe we can have some others too? And how about the bus companies and LUL bringing out some of their more interesting vehicles? Could be quite a show. That's on Sunday 23rd October with other events at the LBM being 9th April and 25th June. |
28/12/2016 | Damon |
| 27 | Picture of 392W in category Central Fleet Owned Vehicles Can anyone help please so that I can make an accurate model of this vehicle as it was at Catford in 1959? Many of these Regal stores lorries were modified in later years by replacing the torpedo sidelights with front mounted, the removal of their valances, and even the cutting back of the tilt. |
18/09/2016 | Clive G |
| 28 | Trade plates in category Other Until 1970 General Trade Plates (GTP) had white letters/numerals on a red background and could be used for all purposes whilst Limited Trade Plates (LTP) were reversed (red on white) and were restricted in use in that vehicles could not carry passengers. |
17/09/2016 | Ray |
| 29 | What next for LTSV? in category Website General Besides keeping the database up to date with reported changes (and adding photos every month or so) there are several other pieces of work to improve the LTSV website. Some are already underway, some are only planned. I thought it might be useful to provide a list of these. Feel free to let me know which you think would be the most useful, or about any other suggestions you may have. 1. Continue with inputting of vehicle histories Over 32,000 vehicle history records have been added over the past few years, and together they give complete coverage for a lot of the vehicles, particularly those from the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. Earlier events can be covered now that vehicle record cards are to hand for the oldest vehicles, but the newer stuff is a bit harder. Some fleetlists from the 1980s and 1990s are currently being combed through and these will provide at least partial histories for the central fleet in those decades. More recent vehicles, and all the bus company vehicles, will have to be covered using reported sightings and licensing data. 2. Add more archive documents In June 2016 I started adding downloadable copies of historical LT documents relating to service vehicles, mainly fleetlists at given dates. There are still quite a lot to do, though the information they contain has (in general) already been used to update the vehicle database. 3. Add more downloadable documents In March 2015 I provided a set of documents that enabled the bulk of the content of the LTSV website to be downloaded, the main aim being to provide a back-up of sorts. The documents containing the first 1500 photos have still not been completed, while the basic fleetlist was to be updated regularly (perhaps annually) but has not yet been done. 4. Add leased unmarked cars to the database This is a recent idea, which could potentially add another thousand or more vehicles to the database. It has been covered in another forum posting added today. 5. Upgrade the forum The forum is perhaps the weakest part of this website, and it was not dealt with in the upgrade last year. Perhaps as a result, the forum does not get much use. But would it do so if it were to be improved? 6. Fix the registration process I am aware that there are some minor problems with the process of registering as a member of this website. It evidently does not stop people joining but it should probably be addressed. 7. Add more external photos A couple of years ago I started work on a facility whereby external photographs (ie ones on other websites and in books) could be added as thumbnails. This could be especially useful for increasing the coverage of older vehicles. Just five photos were added and the work to enable visitors to upload images was never completed. The LTSV photopool on Flickr (which I am not connected with by the way) currently has over 1500 photos, many of vehicles not shown here. 8. Do something about 'changeable' information By this I mean the details of a vehicle that can change during its lifespan and which may be useful for sorting and filtering purposes. The problem is that each vehicle entry in the database can only have one value for the operator, livery, registration number etc. In most cases this is sufficient but, to give an example, a van that started in white livery with South London but was later repainted red with Arriva London can only be listed under one of these states. If put under South London, a search for Arriva London vehicles will not return it. A similar situation applies to trade plates. I did create a solution for this ('LTSV3') a couple of years ago but the amount of work entailed meant that what eventually appeared ('LTSV2.5') did not incorporate the ideas. 9. Improve the home page and general site design Despite major behind the scenes changes, the appearance of LTSV has not really changed in over ten years. The site works, but it could hardly be described as attractive, and it may be off-putting to new visitors (see also point 12). 10. Add sightings from photographs The sightings reported on LTSV are very useful for determining the allocations of current and recent vehicles. However, not everyone is interested in adding sightings. There are a large number of photographs (most of which have not been published) which could be used to 'generate' sightings, thus helping with allocations. 11. Improve the sightings report process Starting in 2014, sightings can either be linked to existing service vehicle locations or entered as plain text for other places. The benefit of this is that you can see all sightings at a given location, this again helping to determine allocations. The process is not quite fool-proof and could probably be improved. 12. Add more background information/guidance for 'newbies' I am sure that a lot of the content of this website would be meaningless to a first-time visitor, and this may deter people from signing-up and contributing. Some guidance and explanations are needed, covering such basics as 'what is a service vehicle', 'what is the central fleet' and so on. 13. Add an annual review for 2015 In recent years I have provided an annual summary of changes to the service vehicle fleets and to the LTSV website, but that for 2015 has not yet been done. The reason for this is that, in the absence of official information, vehicles added during the year are still being reported. As such, any statistics that I produce (for example on the quantity of vehicles added to each fleet) may not be accurate. I will provide the report sometime over the next couple of months anyway. 14. Replacement follow-through links A lot of service vehicle additions can be seen to be direct replacements for existing vehicles, either through observations or data on official documents. This information is now being included in the vehicle histories or notes (where available), but how about making them links? For example, a single-click could take you from one vehicle to the one that replaced it. The trouble with this idea is where there is not a one-to-one relationship. For example, where two vans (A and B) were replaced by two new vans (C and D), it would not be strictly accurate to say that van A was replaced by van C. 15. More devolution A small number of members contribute by far the majority of content to LTSV, and a couple of years ago I started work on granting these people greater editing rights. The only aspects enabled so far are vehicle licensing data and history entries. More rights could be granted, allowing new information to appear slightly more quickly. 16. Links in notes Members can add notes, which can contain the URLs of (for example) photos of particular vehicles. At present there is no method by which these URLs can be turned into clickable links, other than by my manually editing them. Would such a function be useful? I must not forget of course to also keep the other LTSV website up to date (the one covering UK railway wagons), and I do have some long-standing plans to upgrade that site with a database, log-in, sightings etc. I am curious as to whether anyone else has interests in both of these disparate topics, although I do have at least one contributor who provides photographs to both. Right, that is enough from me. Any feedback will be welcomed, carefully considered and then ignored! |
15/09/2016 | Thomas Young |
| 30 | Consultation - Adding post-1981 pool cars to the database in category Website General A few years ago I added the unmarked cars owned by London Transport to the database. These were a regular feature until 1980, after which such vehicles were leased instead. At the time I did not intend to add the leased vehicles since a) not a lot of information was to hand and b) the cars were not generally registered in batches. Since then, more documents have been obtained and I feel I am now in a position to add these vehicles if it would be of benefit or interest. Reasons for adding the leased cars to the database There were quite a few instances of unmarked cars replacing (or being replaced by) marked and/or numbered vehicles. There were several instances of vehicles being transferred between the car and numbered fleets. Many of the leased cars were in fact registered in batches, or in the same series as numbered vehicles, sometimes filling gaps. The allocation and department information could be useful for determining the function and lifespan of service vehicle locations. Reasons against adding the leased cars to the database The information may not be complete. The livery details are not known for any of the cars (as with the owned cars). There are unlikely to be any sightings or photographs of most of the cars. A cut-off date will have to be applied since details of current vehicles and functions cannot be made available. I would propose the changeover from Y-prefix to 51-reg in 2001. I would welcome any comments on this, either here or by e-mail to tom@ltsv.com. |
15/09/2016 | Thomas Young |
| 31 | Contractor vehicles removed from database in category Website General A total of 313 entries in the vehicle database are in the process of being deleted. These include un-used fleetnumbers (except where information is available as to what the number would have been used on), vehicles belonging to recovery contractors (apart from Sovereign and C and S) and vehicles belonging to Almex. The entries removed are as follows: 256 un-used fleetnumbers between 3053 and 5833 8 recovery vehicles - B6TSR Telstar Scania 112M - D9FAT Cedars Volvo FH - F102UFV Lantern Mercedes - T1REC Spearing Volvo FH12 - V8REC Ontime Kenfield Scania 144G - V8TOW Ontime Kenfield Scania 144G - X485YBR Telstar Ford Transit Van - EO51THZ Ontime Kenfield DAF XF 49 vehicles accredited to Almex - Ford Focus estates AV52ZXT/ZYA, AV03UNF/XYW/XZY, AY03XCS/XCX, OE03GXY/GYB/GYX, OV03AWU, BN53WUB, BW53BCX/BOH, FV04XYD/XZT/YBZ and FV54PFN/PTZ - Ford Focus hatchbacks RE07CHL and VN58OVY - Ford Mondeo KH56KHY - Vauxhall Astra estates FV54PTV, AP06EYY, AU06UGK/UPS and WP56HZF - Vauxhall Astra hatchbacks BL55AOU/APF/JSV, BT55HNW/HNX/HNZ, KM55OBG/ODR/OFD, AP06EZE, AU06UHP/UHX/ULA/UPJ/UPZ/URD, WR56RZK, KV07DMU/DNE and AF58KYV - Vauxhall Vectra estate EX07LWN - Vauxhall Zafira KP55LNW This exercise will reduce the total amount of entries in the vehicle database from (currently) 12,712 to 12,399. |
31/05/2016 | Thomas Young |
| 32 | Purley Tram Depot in category Locations As there seems to be no way of retrieving my original post that did not get saved then please this as the original one! Purley was never a permanent way depot as the title states. It may have been used for overnight stays in a secure location. An operational tram depot until September, 1937, it became a tram scrapyard from November 1937 with the transfer of Cohens from Croydon Tram Depot. Ex-MET trams were the last to be scrapped before WW2 caused it to become a wartime store (did open operationally for one week). Scrapping of cars there recommenced in 1945 and when finished the depot was reopened as an annex to Charlton CRD to overcome the backlog of work after the war. With the reconstruction of South Croydon garage and the impending Thornton Heath depot conversion, Purley was considered as a Bus Maintenance Depot for both. I had seen the plans of what was never to be. With the scrapping of five Felthams there in December,1949, the following New Year's Day saw it reopened as an operational depot until the end of the 16/18/42 services in April, 1951. The depot was sold to Henry Streeter as an HGV depot. Thus I recommend that the title shown be changed to ''Purley Tram Depot''. |
25/05/2016 | Colin Withey |
| 33 | Garage Open Days 2016 in category Events The following London bus garage open days have been advised: 21st May - Shepherd's Bush 9th July - Holloway 30th July - Croydon (TC) 13th August - Bromley 1st October - Potters Bar There is also to be another event on Regent Street on 3rd July, no further details yet. |
18/05/2016 | Thomas Young |
| 34 | Croydon Tram Depot in category Locations A tram depot taken over by LPTB in 1933 and not mentioned in the Locations list is the ex-SMET depot in Aurelia Road also referred to as Mitcham depot because of access to the Mitcham Road. It was non-operational at the time but in 1935 the junction direction was changed and the building reopened to transfer Cohen's tram scrapping activities from Brixton Hill so it could become fully operational whilst Streatham depot was being rebuilt for taking the longer Felthams. LPTB now gave the building the formal title of ''Croydon depot'' as the Mitcham title would confuse Cohen's hands as they had to pass through Mitcham and then Mitcham Common to enter Croydon to get there!!! Following Cohen's request in the autumn of 1937 for the roof to be made watertight, LPTB decided to transfer the scrapping operation to the now closed Purley depot. The importance of Croydon depot for service vehicles is that it was used as a base for the overhead wire conversion to trolleybus in 1937 and photos exist of the tower wagons stationed there. It is a coincidence, that today's ''Croydon Tram Depot'' is in Therapia Lane which joins Mitcham Road almost opposite Aurelia Road. I wonder if anyone has listed the road service vehicles belonging to Croydon/London Tramlink? |
11/05/2016 | Colin Withey |
| 35 | Purley Tram Depot in category Locations I have registered to provide a token of thanks for this freely available list which I have resorted to whilst away from home and my books on the subject. It is in respect of your description of Purley being a permanent way depot. No, but temporary overnight security use by p.w. staff would have been made to save vehicle journeys. Opened in 1901 as an operating depot, it was closed by LPTB in September, 1937. It was reopened in November, 1937, when LPTB transferred Cohen's scrapping operation at Croydon depot (aka Aurelia Road - another story) to there. Scrapping continued until 1939 when the depot became a wartime storage facility (except for one week when reopened as an operating depot for a 16/18 'skeleton' shuttle service!!!). Scrapping resumed in 1945 but this operation was transferred to Brixton Hill in 1947 allowing the building to be renovated as an Annex to Charlton Works hence the transfer of the tractors to work there. This use ended in 1949 followed by scrapping five Felthams! From January, 1950, to April, 1951, it reopened as an operational depot taking over from Thornton Heath for its conversion. Purley depot nearly became a bus maintenance facility to permit the reconstructed TC and, the then to be, TH garages being purely bus parks. I have seen the drawings for the bus maintenance bays within the existing buildings and appreciated why this scheme did not materialise leading to its sale to Henry Streeter as a heavy commercial vehicle maintenance garage. So I do recommend that the title of this entry be changed to ''Purley Tram Depot''. |
11/05/2016 | Colin Withey |
| 36 | Garage Open Days 2015 in category Events The following have been announced: Epsom 20th June, Potters Bar 11th July, Camberwell 5th September, Willesden 19th September and Westbourne Park 10th October . Barking is also stated to be holding an open day - date awaited |
27/05/2015 | Ray |
| 37 | London Transport Museum Acton Depot Open weekend 25/26 April 2015 in category Events Just a reminder that the LTM open weekend at Acton Depot is close and happens on 25/26 April 2015. There's supposed to be an Emergency Response Unit display this time. I shall be there all weekend and doing a bit of ''hold tight!, ding ding'' on RM1 on Saturday. They seem to have me down as Blakey on the Sunday so it'll be ''I 'ate you Butler'' instead. Mind the doors!..DC. |
17/04/2015 | Damon |
| 38 | Emergency Incident Vehicle in category Central Fleet Leased Vehicles Noted a LU livery medium wheelbase Ford Transit at Camden Town (Sunday 29/03/15) with 'Emergency Incident Vehicle' lettering on both sides and red/yellow chevrons on rear doors, Standard blue skirt. Not in any way similar to ERU marked vehicles, didn't get reg or fleet no when passing sadly and not seen similar marked before - any one have more?? |
30/03/2015 | Rob Morel |
| 39 | New 1/43 scale models in category Models New from Radley Models this year will be a Leyland Cub trolleybus breakdown tender, and possibly a catering van as well. To complete a scene in this scale will come a kit of a K3 trolleybus plus extra sidelamps to allow conversion to a K2. |
16/03/2015 | Clive G |
| 40 | New 1/76 service vehicle kits in category Models Some news provided by Clive Greedus:  Thanks to Tony Asquith his Little Bus Company are now taking advance orders for new 1/76 scale service vehicle kits that should be ready 2015/6.(Reserve now, pay later). The models above are scratchbuilt but the kits will be similar. On the left, LT's standard stores and towing lorries from 1939 till the mid sixties on ex AEC Regal (T) and Regent (STL) bus chassis, will be represented by 447W. In the center is 1018J, the shelter carrier converted from an STL, served 1954-61. On the right, railway breakdown tender 110J is older than the kit model which will be 832J, one of those on ex STL chassis that served buses as well as railways. The van roof will be lower and there'll be no cab top sign. IMHO this is the best LTSV modelling news in years! |
08/10/2014 | Thomas Young |
| 41 | Docklands light railway support vehicles in category Other Companies Do these vehicles come within the LTSV grouping? I have a small list of 4 that I saw recently and was wondering if a complete list of Docklands service vehicles is available? |
27/05/2014 | Steve Warman |
| 42 | HCVS London-Brighton 2014 in category Events A quick look at the programme for this year's London to Brighton run on Sunday 4th May 2014 reveals that elusive ambulance 1532B is entered. This vehicle changed hands a while ago and seems to be having a period of activity. Where are all the other 'preserved' service vehicles?? The LTM have Red Arrow MBA582 and Scooter LT1076 entered. Neither has been out and about for a good while. Seeya there on Brighton seafront! |
17/04/2014 | Damon |
| 43 | Preserved Service Vehicles in category Website Guidance and Questions Does anybody know of a list of known preserved service vehicles. |
14/04/2014 | Peat |
| 44 | Garage open days in London in 2014 in category Events There are currently no fewer than seven garage open days proposed for this summer, list below. 10/05/2014 Catford 07/06/2014 Alperton 21/06/2014 Stockwell 28/06/2014 Fulwell 05/07/2014 Potters Bar 19/07/2014 Walworth 07/09/2014 Dartford (Arriva KT) One other imminent event that may be of interest is the RT75 event this weekend. On Saturday 12th April RT buses will work over old route 22 between Piccadilly Circus and Homerton. There will also be a display of RT buses at Ash Grove Garage. On the Sunday (13th) the buses will feature in the London Bus Museum Spring Gathering at Brooklands. While on the subject of anniversary events, RM60 will be held in Finsbury Park on 12th and 13th July 2014. |
09/04/2014 | Thomas Young |
| 45 | Acton LT Museum Depot Open weekend 15/16 March 2014 in category Events The Depot will be staging an open day again this weekend. Saturday and Sunday 15th and 16th March 2014. It has the usual model theme plus a Year of the Bus theme and you should see some of the buses moved out of their usual confines and find them a little bit more accessible this time. All good fun. I'll be working on the LTM Friends stall all weekend if anyone is about. Seeya there. Damon. |
13/03/2014 | Damon |
| 46 | Tram Depot in category Locations I have today started work on the 1939-1948 Advice Book, and almost straight away hit another location query. Various vehicles are shown as being at 'Tram Depot', most of them elderly lorries marked as Reserve. Transfers are mainly between there and 'Chiswick'. I am going to assume that 'Tram Depot' is the location now known as Stamford Brook Garage. |
01/03/2014 | Thomas Young |
| 47 | London Buses Cherry Picker in category Central Fleet Leased Vehicles Noted a white Ford Transit chassis cab with cherry picker bodywork (yellow boom) on Cricklewood Broadway this Morning carrying Red roundels 'buses' on cab doors and bonnet, no sign of fleet number. Tree lopper perhaps?? |
19/02/2014 | Rob Morel |
| 48 | York Trailers in category Central Fleet Miscellaneous Vehicles Having just completed the Radley Models 1/43rd scale kit of the 3ton Mk 1 Ford Thames Trader in its 1129F guise, I'm inclined to do a conversion of the vehicle into one of the prime movers in the 1139F-1143F series. Ideally I'd like to produce one of the York trailers fitted with the Scammell mechanical horse coupling to go with it. There's photographs of YT7 and YT12 in the Rennie and Aldridge book but I really need to know what the length of the trailer was. Anyone have any ideas? Many Thanks Arun |
02/02/2014 | Arun |
| 49 | Replaced By and Replacement For in category Website General If you look at the vehicle history entries you will see that a lot of them contain the above information, showing which vehicles were replaced by new vehicles entering service, and what the replacement for vehicles going out of service was. I should point out that this information is not actually shown in the source documents (mainly LT Variation Sheets). However, if a vehicle enters service at location X with department Y on date Z, then a similar one leaves service from the same at around the same date, then it is safe to assume that there was a direct replacement. I am considering making this information into hyperlinks (so that you can 'click through' chains of vehicles) but the problem is that there is often not a one-for-one relationship. |
01/02/2014 | Thomas Young |
| 50 | Scania Prime Mover LPJ564K in category Vehicle Hires and Loans Variation sheets list this as taken on hire from Dorada Commercial Vehicles on 03/04/1973 (to Works). |
31/01/2014 | Thomas Young |
| 51 | Location codes (or 'I like to be consistent, sometimes') in category Locations I had been meaning to say a bit about the codes used as abbreviations for locations on this website, and why they differ from those used in some other publications. Obviously bus garages have always had official one- or two-letter codes which are well known. At first there were relatively few other locations at which service vehicles were kept, and both LOTS and the PSV Circle assigned them two-letter codes (unfortunately not always the same, for example LOTS used LE for Lillie Bridge while the PSVC used LB). With the huge amount of garage codes that have been used over the years, plus the increase related to tendered bus operation, it was becoming hard to find meaningful codes for SV locations that did not conflict with these. There was also a growing number of SV locations being added or identified. LOTS had already been using 3-letter codes for some non-garage locations, notably ALD for Aldenham and AEC for AEC Southall. Whilst I was putting together SUP15B for LOTS, I argued that 3-letter codes should become standard for non-garage locations, and these were duly used. In devising the codes I tried to make them as meaningful and straightforward as possible, for example Effra Road was given code EFR. However, I also applied a few rules, albeit not completely consistently. To avoid confusion with bus allocations combined with status codes (for example ACt would be used for a trainer bus allocated to Willesden), I tried not to use any codes that ended in T, U or W. A bit of a slip-up was my recent addition of EWT for Edgware Track Depot, where EWt is a potential current bus code. For bus stations, most were given codes ending in B, with D the last letter for most depots and S for Stations. Offices were generally given either H (for House) or O, while Emergency Response Unit locations ended in E. The result is some codes that may appear odd (for example MMO for Mitcham Offices) but also a clear relationship between groups of codes (for example SDB, SDD and SDS are the bus station, depot and railway station at Stratford). There are a few anomalies (such as Acton, Bollo House being ACB but not being a bus station) but hopefully the codes are fairly easy to either guess or remember. Now, whilst it is quite easy to change the codes on the website (which I recently did when I discovered that 'Dollis Hill' was an office at Cricklewood Bus Garage rather than the Station - DHS was changed to DHO) it occurred to me that this might not be sensible. The codes have been used in SUP15B, in numerous editions of The London Bus, and also in the newer TLB Extras published by LOTS. Changing them could lead to confusion for future readers. So, whilst I now know (for example) that neither AGS and SSS are actually at their respective stations, I won't be changing them. What has brought all this to mind today is the discovery of yet another probable SV location. Silwood Triangle is a patch of open ground south of Surrey Quays Station and bounded by two branches of the East London Line and the Southeastern lines from London Bridge. Assuming it does become a long-term allocation, I am a bit stuck for a code. SWD would imply a depot, SWT would confuse with SWt, SQ-something (for Surrey Quays) would be OK but I can't decide what the something letter should be. Ah, SQY might suit. The Y relates to it being a yard and also fits in with the name Surrey Quays. Shame it isn't really at Surrey Quays.... Anyhow, enough of my rambling. I should really get to bed. Or maybe I'll just do a bit more history inputting first! Tom |
26/01/2014 | Thomas Young |
| 52 | DASM (Distribution & Advertising Service Manager) in category Companies This department name first appeared on 13/06/1967, when a large number of publicity vans were listed as being transferred to it from the Publicity Officer. I have entered these as changes of department name, rather than transfers. However, the DASM acronym then appears against various other vehicles, including several tippers delicensed in spring 1968. Perhaps (as its name implies) DASM was a merging of CDS and Publicity. Hopefully things will become clear as I progress. |
20/01/2014 | Thomas Young |
| 53 | Where is 'Works'? in category Locations Up to about mid-1960, the Variation Sheets and Advice Books explicitly named Aldenham as the place where most new SVs were delivered to, and where a lot of them went prior to disposal. However, from then on, most entries in both documents annoyingly show only 'Works'. In some cases, later entries for a particular vehicle show that Works was in fact Aldenham, but for the rest I am playing it safe and putting the allocation as 'Works'. Does anyone know for certain whether 'Works' relates to just Aldenham? Or for that matter, why the change was made? A related question that may yet be answered as I work through the documents is this: When did new SV deliveries stop going to Aldenham? |
05/01/2014 | Thomas Young |
| 54 | Difference between Withdrawn and Delicensed in category Website General Documents up to May 1955 listed any vehicles taken out of service as being Withdrawn. After that date, the term Delicensed was introduced for vehicles that were likely to re-enter service later. For the history inputting exercise, I will initially be using the terms as they appeared in the original documents. |
14/12/2013 | Thomas Young |
| 55 | Why are the department names so varied? in category Website General In inputting the records, I am currently doing it as near to verbatim as possible. Hence operating departments that are abbreviated in the original documents will be abbreviated in the database, for now at least. There seems to be a degree of confusion about some of the abbreviations. For example, Dist Eng when related to TnT (Trams and Trolleybuses) vehicles usually means (electrical power) Distribution Engineer. However, at least one entry has this transcribed as District Engineer on the variations sheets. |
07/12/2013 | Thomas Young |
| 56 | Rye Lane PW closure date in category Locations I have a closure date for Rye Lane Permanent Way Depot of October 1948, the site being used for Rye Lane Bus Garage (opened in 1952). It is reported that the PW vehicles moved to Bowles Road (close to Old Kent Road Garage). However, the LT documents show vehicles still being allocated to Rye Lane into 1949, for example ticket vans 809B/810B in April/May, and car JXN484 in late June. |
01/12/2013 | Thomas Young |
| 57 | Early uses of Aldenham in category Locations Aldenham Works was first intended to be a train depot for an extension to the Northern Line. During WW2 it was requisitioned for use as an aircraft manufacturing factory. It eventually reopened as a bus overhaul works in 1955. However, there is evidence it was at least partly used by LT before this. I haven't yet looked at pre-1948 records, but the following have come up: Leyland Cub 182C was transferred there for the Works Manager on 05/05/1948. Ford lorry 479F was transferred there upon withdrawal from Lillie Bridge on 14/02/1949. Many other redundant vehicles followed, many spending a few days here prior to moving to Walthamstow (Ferry Lane) for storage pending disposal. New vehicles seem to first appear in 1949. AEC Regent 741J was here when first converted from STL42 on 30/03/1949. Was the work perhaps done here? Later that year a few new vehicles were first delivered to Aldenham (such as 789F on 16/08/1949), though most continued to go to Chiswick. |
01/12/2013 | Thomas Young |
| 58 | Firemans van at West Green? in category Central Fleet Owned Vehicles Morris van 241M is listed as being transferred on 25/11/1948 from the Chiswick RSI to West Green as a 'Firemen's van'. It has been suggested this is an error for 'Foreman's', but the latter title has not been seen on any other entries. |
01/12/2013 | Thomas Young |
| 59 | Conversion of ex WD AEC Matadors in category Central Fleet Owned Vehicles Three queries in one here. 8 ex War Department AEC Matadors were bought by LT in late 1947/early 1948. They eventually entered service as Master Breakdown Tenders. 1. Six of the vehicles were stored for a while (not concurrently) at ''Slough''. I have entered this as the (later) LCBS garage, but it has been pointed out that this did not open until the 1980s. LT had three garages in Slough. Alpha Street closed in 1933, Bath Road in 1936 and Langley Road in 1937. So where were the Matadors? 2. Most of the Matadors went to Metro Coach Building at Hayes for conversion, usually after a spell at Slough. Indeed 749P was recording as visiting Metro three times. However, 750P and 754P seem to have entered service directly from Chiswick, without going to Metro. 3. Why did these conversions take so long? 747P entered service in 1948 but the rest took until 1949. In particular, 753P only went to Metro in May 1949, over a year after acquisition. |
01/12/2013 | Thomas Young |
| 60 | LOTS ATS EVENT AT THE RAF MUSEUM HENDON in category Events This years LOTS ATS Event is at a new venue, the RAF Museum at Hendon, nearest tube station Colindale. Or Mill Hill Broadway, First Capital Connect, then a bus. The date is Saturday 30th November 2013. Full details please LOTS Website. |
14/10/2013 | Brian J.Elvidge |
| 61 | London Transport Museum Depot Open Weekend in category Events The London Transport Museum Depot Open Weekend is from the 1st to the 3rd November 2013, for details please see LT Museum Website. |
14/10/2013 | Brian J.Elvidge |
| 62 | LTSV is 10 years old in category Website General LTSV is 10 years old today. However, it has not significantly changed since the database was added in October 2005. I have lots of plans for an upgraded version of the site but I would also like to know what visitors would like to see. Is there much interest in the allocation histories of LT vehicles? Should the design of the site be updated (getting rid of those grey pages)? Would maps of locations be of any use? What don't you like about the site? What is missing? Have your say, either by replying to this posting, or by e-mailing me at tom@ltsv.com. |
01/10/2013 | Thomas Young |
| 63 | New Ford Transits (Mk8, Custom, etc) in category Vehicle Designs and Designations The appearance of several new Ford Transit Custom minibuses in the Stagecoach fleet in September has prompted me to look at the new Transit range with a view to deciding how they will be described on LTSV. The new range comprises four all-new models that will replace all existing Transit variants over the next year or so. Each model has a distinct yet related styling and can be summarised as follows: Transit Courier - A new compact van, with just one standard size option Transit Connect - The revised (and slightly enlarged) Connect comes in two lengths but now with just one height option Transit Custom - This replaces the low-roof Transit van and comes in two lengths. It is slightly longer and narrower Transit - This replaces the mid-height and high-roof Transit and comes with 2 wheelbases, 2 or 3 heights and 3 body lengths. The wheelbases are the same as the Mk7 Transits but the bodies on the new vans are longer, wider and taller A nice photograph showing a line-up of all four models can be found at http://probuildermag.co.uk/news/all-new-ford-transit-courier. Full specifications for the range (such as dimensions) do not seem to be available yet. However, based on what I have been able to find out, I intend to apply the following descriptions on LTSV: Transit Courier - Will be described as 'Transit Courier' Transit Connect - Will be described as 'Transit Connect Mk2' with either SWB or LWB Transit Custom - Will be described as 'Transit Custom' with either SWB or MWB Transit - Will be described as 'Transit Mk8' with either MWB, LWB or LWB EL and Low-Roof, Mid-Height or High-Roof Note that the 'Mk8' designation is not official but appears to be widely used. The Mk8 is sometimes referred to as the 6th generation, since the broadly similar Mk3, Mk4 and Mk5 were sensibly grouped as the 3rd generation. My intention is that the longest Transit Custom and the shortest Transit will both be described as MWB since they have the same 3.3m wheelbase as the MWB Mk7 Transit (although they all have different body lengths). As such, there will not be a 'Transit Custom LWB' nor a 'Transit SWB'. If the Transit Courier and Transit Custom models are significantly revised in the future, then 'Mk1' designators will be retrospectively applied to the initial designs. Once some photographs and/or diagrams are available I will update the Ford Transit article on this site. |
29/09/2013 | Thomas Young |
| 64 | Stratford Market Depot open house in category Events This year's Openhouse events include tours of the Jubilee Line depot at Stratford Market. Tours are on Saturday 21st September and must be prebooked at www.tflevents.co.uk/lu150stratfordmarketdepot. Stratford Market is of course home to a large number of service vehicles so this will no doubt be of interest to visitors to this site. However, it is not yet clear which areas of the depot will be covered. Also, rather unfortunately, the event falls on the same day as the triple garage open day at Metrobus. |
30/08/2013 | Thomas Young |
| 65 | A new tree-lopper? in category Central Fleet Miscellaneous Vehicles Anyone who watched the BBC doumentary 'The Route Masters' last week may have noticed a modern open-top bus being used as a tree lopper at night. The vehicle appeared to be TfL's X173FBB, a Volvo B7TL/Plaxton President new to Durham Travel (trading as London Easylink), later passing to London Buses (trading as East Thames Buses). When that operation was sold to Go-Ahead, X173FBB was retained by TfL, although I can't recall if it had already been open-topped by then. The staff seen in the short clip were working for Ringway Jacobs and the vehicle may have been on hire to them. It presumably had had its upper deck seats removed for the job. Since the vehicle is not a dedicated tree-lopper, I will not be adding it to the database. |
02/07/2013 | Thomas Young |
| 66 | More garage open days 2013 in category Events On 21st September, Metrobus garages at Orpington (MB), Croydon (C) & Crawley (CY) will be open to the public to celebrate 30 years of Metrobus. On 17th November there will be an open day at Merton (AL) whilst a smaller event - tours of the garage - was to have taken place at Stockwell (SW) on 8th December but has been cancelled. |
26/04/2013 | Ray |
| 67 | London Transport Museum Depot Open Weekend in category Events The London Transport Museum Depot Open Weekend, Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th April 2013, from 11.00 to 17.00. Nearest Tube Acton Town. Admission £10, LT Museum Friends Free. Note There will be no District Line Service all Weekend Turnham Green to Ealing Broadway, and no Piccadilly Line service all weekend Acton Town to Uxbridge, buses will run on both lines, see Transport for London web-site for more information. |
30/03/2013 | Brian J.Elvidge |
| 68 | Garage open days 2013 in category Events Potters Bar open day is planned for 8th June whilst Willesden is planned for 5th October (was to be 14th September). Another open day at Holloway has been booked for 10th August. |
29/03/2013 | Ray |
| 69 | Bus and Railway data in category Links and Publications It's a bit off-topic but I would like to mention 2 impressive websites that may be of interest. Both use live data feeds from transport providers but in way which makes them very useful for enthusiasts. I should also add that neither site works in Internet Explorer 8. Mozilla seems to be OK. The London Vehicle Finder (http://londonvf.co.uk/) is a very simple-looking site. You can type in a location, a bus route number or a bus registration number and it will give you a load of current and recent information. LOTS are evidently making good use of this source. OpenTrainTimes (http://opentraintimes.com/) combines railway Working Timetable data with live train-running information. Most interesting are the route diagrams, which show real-time train locations and signal states in much the same way as a signaller would see them. The North London line is my favourite. For stations not yet covered by these, you can select a date/time for any location and see what trains run. What sets this apart from sites like National Rail Enquiries is that non-passenger train paths are included. Be aware that the information is based on timing points. So, for example, several freight trains run through Abbey Wood but this is not a timing point for them. Selecting a train you can view a map showing its timing points. Some are interesting, such as the Westbourne Park to Northfleet Crossrail spoil trains, which cross over themselves twice. |
15/02/2013 | Thomas Young |
| 70 | Tree Loppers in category Central Fleet Owned Vehicles I had the opportunity today to have a close look at the preserved 971J [ex-1/10/STL/6 1470]. What intrigued me was that I was sure I had read somewhere that in LT days the upper deck floor had had a large hole cut in in and the tree bits fell through this into the lower deck saloon whence they were eventually removed through the rear emergency exit. Interestingly, the windows on the vehicle are painted glass rather than plated over and it would be surprising if the windows would survive having small branches continually falling on/against them. Does anyone know, or have a picture of, what the upper deck floor looked like on these vehicles in tree lopping days? or how they were used? I should have added that currently, the upper deck floor shows no evidence of ever having had such a hole cut into it. |
30/01/2013 | Arun |
| 71 | Neasden Open Day in category Events An open day (Underground 150) is planned for 31st August 2013. |
24/01/2013 | Ray |
| 72 | The end of LT service vehicle body numbers in category Central Fleet Owned Vehicles The LT variation sheets always listed the body numbers of service vehicles taken into stock (and usually when the vehicle was sold as well). However, deliveries from December 1964 do not show the body numbers, suggesting that this is when the use of body numbers ceased. SUP15 shows 1373B, delivered on 14/12/1964 as being body number M103, and adds that this was the last body number allocated. This number is not shown on the variation sheets. Body numbers M1 to M102 were evidently planned to be allocated in order to vehicles 1265F-1272F, 1278LD-1291LR and 1293AS-1310KB and 1312F-1372F. I would surmise that the body numbers for vehicles delivered after the end of November 1964 were not in fact used. These were M55-M59, M66, M68, M69, M72, M80-M84 and M86-M88. |
28/11/2012 | Thomas Young |
| 73 | Kerby Motors Limited in category Central Fleet Owned Vehicles The above took a number of vehicles in the years after the war. A history of the business can be found at http://www.kerbeymotors.com/History.htm I am not aware of any former LT vehicles being shown. (As an aside I went to a school in Kerby Street in the fifties - just too late!) |
04/10/2012 | Ray |
| 74 | London Transport Variations in Rolling Stock (Variation Sheets) in category Links and Publications A huge number (well over 20,000) of London Transport documents from the 1940s through to the early 1990s are available on the internet. These were all scanned and uploaded by John Marshall. Perhaps the most interesting are the sheets entitled Variations in Rolling Stock, which show all movements and changes affecting LT buses and service vehicles each day. The documents are spread across four websites, the links for which are below. Users should note the following: The scans are fairly low resolution and are almost illegible in places. You sometimes need to scroll down past various photo galleries (or click on More) to see all the documents. The pages are often very slow to load. http://picasaweb.google.com/103109420540420338437 Here are the Variation Sheets for September 1944 to August 1963 (with some gaps). https://picasaweb.google.com/107128559835522255960 This collection includes Variation Sheets for the period August 1963 to October 1973 plus lots of photos. https://picasaweb.google.com/104734698688735396562 This collection includes Variation Sheets for the period November 1973 to December 1990 plus some other contemporary documents (including some service vehicle specific ones). https://picasaweb.google.com/100765472585824042460 This collection contains Variation Sheets (or equivalents) for the period January 1991 to 1997, plus lots of other LT and LCBS documents from the 1930s to the 1980s. I spent quite some time downloading copies of all the Variation Sheets and any other documents that relate to service vehicles, and the information contained within is gradually being applied to the vehicle database. Updated 12/06/2020: The defunct hyperlinks have been removed. John's documents can now be found at www.ltsv.com/lta. |
28/09/2012 | Thomas Young |
| 75 | LOTS ATS Event 2012. in category Events The LOTS ATS event this year 2012 will be Saturday October 13th 2012, earlier than usual, held at the Harrow Leisure Centre, further details see LOTS website. |
03/07/2012 | Brian J.Elvidge |
| 76 | Open Weekend London Transport Museum Depot Acton in category Events The London Transport Museum Website informs that the next Family Open Weekend of the London Transport Museum Depot will be Saturday 6th October 2012 and Sunday 7th October 2012. LT Museum Friends have free entry to this event. For further details LT Museum website. |
30/06/2012 | Brian J.Elvidge |
| 77 | 2012 London bus garage open days in category Events Sat 12th May. Event at Fulwell Garage to mark the 50th anniversary of the trolleybus closure. Not an 'open-day' as such. Sat 7th July. Potters Bar Garage open day Sat 29th Sept. Willesden Garage open day CANCELLED |
07/05/2012 | Thomas Young |
| 78 | 1416LD resin kit in category Models SV modellers may be interested to know that Radley Models have produced a 1/76 scale resin kit of breakdown tender 1416LD, details of which can be found at http://www.radleymodels.com/page/service_stock An O gauge version and a tower wagon in the same scale are also shown at http://www.radleymodels.com/page/_o_gauge_road_vehicles |
28/03/2012 | Adam Floyd |
| 79 | LT Private Cars (pre-1985) added to the database in category Website General No fewer than 1,683 vehicles have been added to the database today, these comprising the 'Private Cars' operated by London Transport. Up until 1980, regular batches of cars were bought for use by individual members of staff (or positions). Although unmarked, they could often be recognised by their registration numbers, these being in batches either similar to, contiguous to, or intermingled with those on buses and numbered service vehicles. After 1981 such vehicles were leased and hence were no longer in distinct batches. The last owned cars appear to have been sold in 1985. The information on these vehicles has been added to the database since it is now obtainable from London Transport 'Variations in Rolling Stock' sheets that have been published on the internet. The next stage will be to use these variation sheets to capture the allocation histories of the cars, as well as of other LT service vehicles. This may take some time! Fairly comprehensive details are included of cars bought between 1944 and 1981. Some information on earlier vehicles has also been added, having been collated from lists in the LOTS SUP1C (1977) and SUP22 (1981) publications plus various other LT documents. The following vehicles were listed in SUP22 but have been omitted as they don't appear to have actually existed: KYV700D, SMK790F and WYU171T. Likewise FJJ583 from SUP1C. FJJ569 and JXC361 have been included, although they do not appear on the variation sheets. Many of the registration numbers used would command high prices these days, examples being SLT1, SLT2 etc, TJJ1M and THV1S. The 'special' plates were often applied to the more upmarket cars (such as Jaguars and Daimlers) that were assigned to senior board members. The bulk of the intake was of fairly basic cars, such as Austins, Hillmans and Ford Anglias, Escorts and Prefects. The Ford Escort accounted for 417 of the cars, though this does include a quantity of the rather different 1950s design that used the name. The service life of the cars varied quite a bit. The onset of World War 2 resulted in many of the 1930s cars being kept on longer than expected, while a life of 5-7 years was normal afterwards. Cars bought in the 1950s often lasted a lot less, with about 80 being sold before their first birthday. Record holder appears to be Ford Anglia WYL728, new in October 1959 and sold in the following July. 2-3 years was the average. The livery of most of the cars is not known. Early examples were often black, while white and red are known to have featured on 1970s deliveries. Very few photographs of these cars have been seen. At least 34 of the cars were given fleetnumbers in the Tram and Trolleybus service vehicle series (in the range 44 to 233), although these were probably not carried. To see the full list, select 'LT Car' from the 'Range' drop-down on the Fleet Data page. By the way, I have set the 'date added' entries to be 01/01/2012, this to avoid cluttering up the 'latest data' lists! I should also mention that some of the entries for chassis numbers may in fact be engine numbers. The variation sheets are not always clear on the distinction, and it would appear that a lot of the chassis numbers of service vehicles in the original SUP15 book (and hence also on this site) are also in fact engine numbers. |
16/03/2012 | Thomas Young |
| 80 | Feb 22nd Aldwych Emergency Exercise in category Events Huge emergency service exercise centred on (closed) Aldwych Tube today from 7am-7pm vehicles parking in (specially closed) Surrey Street WC2R all main emergency services sending 'specials' anyone in the area able to deploy camera!? |
22/02/2012 | Rob Morel |
| 81 | ERU and blue lights in category Central Fleet Owned Vehicles A brief report from the BBC Local News can be found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16961185 |
12/02/2012 | Damon |
| 82 | LT Corps (St Johns Ambulance) 502FJJ in category Other Companies I found this pic of an ambulance that appears to have LT Corps lettering (as per former GS47). The registration (502FJJ) suggests it was supplied by LT. https://picasaweb.google.com/107128559835522255960/1972slides#5264920713372672834 |
11/12/2011 | Thomas Young |
| 83 | Ford Transit LS10YMO 'cancelled fleet order' in category Central Fleet Leased Vehicles Here's a funny thing. I found online a picture of the new Ford Transit van model by Oxford Diecast. The van was plain white but it carried reg LS10YMO, which sounded familiar. So I googled the reg and found a page on the Hartwell website, complete with pictures of LS10YMO in white/blue livery and for sale. The details say it was a cancelled fleet order. The van was a high-roof LWB Mk7 Ford Transit. It might not be there for long but the webpage can be viewed at http://www.hartwell.co.uk/vans/used/?lnk=922&make=ford&perpage=4®no=LS10YMO. |
03/12/2011 | Thomas Young |
| 84 | Oxford diecast 1/76 Transit in category Models This should be in the shops before Christmas. It is of the 'medium' wheelbase version rather than the short wheelbase illustrated. |
14/11/2011 | Phillip Walton |
| 85 | NEW from Oxford Diecast in category Models Newly announced by Oxford is a 1/43 scale model of 1164F a Ford 400E minibus type thing. Expected for release 'quarter 1 2012' They also have some AEC Matador wreckers in the offing, one from Southdown which should sell well (everybody loves Southdown!!), one from Devon General and one from Bradford, all 1/76. Start saving yer pocket money.. |
07/11/2011 | Damon |
| 86 | Fictional LTSVs! in category Links and Publications While researching something else entirely, I came across the Flickr website belonging to northernblue109 (Garry Luck). This has many brilliantly photoshopped pictures, mainly of buses and trains in unauthentic liveries. He has also done a couple of 'might-have-been' LT service vehicles, a Leyland TS8 Railway Emergency Control Vehicle (http://www.flickr.com/photos/northernblue109/5582478700/in/photostream/) and a Leyland Comet Breakdown Tender (http://www.flickr.com/photos/northernblue109/5581893737/in/photostream/). |
30/10/2011 | Thomas Young |
| 87 | Stagecoach and First UK-wide fleetlists in category Links and Publications Nathan Thorn's UK-buses website includes up-to-date fleetlists for Stagecoach and First (as well as East Yorkshire Motor Services). The Stagecoach one (http://www.uk-buses.co.uk/stagecoach.php) is almost comprehensive with around 8,100 vehicles listed, although it does not include the re-acquired London operations. Visitors to LTSV may be interested in the fact that service vehicles (from cars upwards) are included. The last few pages of the list show about 330 SVs at garages around the UK. The First group list (http://www.uk-buses.co.uk/first.php is far less comprehensive (around 4,100 vehicles out of about 8,000 operated) and does not include SVs. |
15/08/2011 | Thomas Young |
| 88 | NTBO in category Website Guidance and Questions Can you tell me what NTBO stands for in the vehicle notes section ? |
06/07/2011 | KeithD |
| 89 | SORN in category Website Guidance and Questions SORN applies to all tax classes including those where no duty is payable, such as historic and disabled tax classes. A SORN is required if one of the following applies: The vehicle tax is not renewed (or is being refunded) and the vehicle is kept off the road or every 12 months if the vehicle is kept off the road. Therefore, in theory, any vehicle shown on the website as 'unlicenced' for some time has probably been scrapped, hidden away in bits or dumped in the sea! |
03/07/2011 | Ray |
| 90 | Siku Mercedes Sprinter van 1/76 scale in category Models I have just obtained two examples of the above, a van and a minibus. They are to exact 1/76 scale and will stand alongside the CMNL version without any noticeable differences except that they do however represent the SWB variant. In some areas it is cruder than the CMNL model, the interior and wheels in particular but these can be upgraded/replaced. The Mercedes star does not appear on the grill neither does any indication of the prototype manufacturer probably due to not obtaining permission from Mercedes. In fact it is possibly a copy of the CMNL modified to the shorter version. |
19/06/2011 | Phillip Walton |
| 91 | Reliance Redshaw-Lister Garage Sweeper in category Central Fleet Miscellaneous Vehicles Hello LTSV2 members. My name is Gav Redshaw. I have just registered to this site after having found it through researching my families business, Reliance Trucks co. I got onto this site through the Reliance Sweeper at Cobham and was astonished to find the data sheet on here that tells me that there were upto 97 road sweepers in service with LT. It was my great uncle who founded and owned the business and I've other family members whom also worked for a long time within the company. Including my Great Grandad who was factory engineer and my Grandad who was in sales. The genes of the family have carried through both my and my dad as we're interested in Horticultural, Industrial and Agricultural machinery and own a couple of restored vintage tractors. Myself and my dad are both interested in finding original examples of Reliance Trucks. I've been in touch with Matthew over at the Auto Truck website who has provided me with useful information and what he knows to exsist. I'm here with a request as to the source of the data about Reliance Trucks that's on this site and any other information anybody has on them. We've all the family history behind the company which I hope to at some point post publicly on the net to which I will link on here if anybody would be interested? Thanks very much to all the members who've posted their sightings and information. It'd be great if someone could possibly tell me the origins of the data provided on here about the 97 which were in Service. Please don't hesitate to contact me either replying to this post or via my email bluesbeaten-redshaw@hotmail.co.uk Gav Redshaw |
12/05/2011 | Gavin Redshaw |
| 92 | uploading photos. in category Website Guidance and Questions A vehicle I use to own is on this database. I would like to upload a photo I have of it .. But can't seem to find out how.. is this because I'm a new member??? Also would like to know where it was last sited, as its been used since I sold it as a scrapper. Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions. Dave. |
05/05/2011 | Dave Smith |
| 93 | Red & Cream Liveried Vehicles in category Central Fleet Owned Vehicles Before about 1964 Railway Breakdown Vehicles such as 110J; 111J; 416M; 418J; 832J etc carried a Red and Cream Livery. Could anyone tell me exactly what shade of red was used, and if there are any paint codes for this? The Cream is assumed to be Chiswick Cream. |
22/03/2011 | Steve |
| 94 | 6987/6988 (?) in category Central Fleet Leased Vehicles With Modec going into administration on 4th March 2011 the possibility of these, or any other numbers (if allocated to the Modec vehicles supposedly on order), appearing is reduced. |
15/03/2011 | Ray |
| 95 | Matador from Oxford diecast in category Models Oxford diecast are to produce a 1/76 AEC Matador model. While it has not been stated that any service vehicles will be produced there must be plenty of scope! |
25/02/2011 | Damon |
| 96 | LBSL IRUs up for replacement? in category Central Fleet Leased Vehicles The initial batch of London Buses Incident Response Units are now around three years old, which is the usual life-span for leased vehicles (including the Mercedes Vans that these replaced). However, given the economic situation, and the fact that hybrid vehicles are still only just being evaluated, I would imagine they may stick around for a while yet. |
17/01/2011 | Thomas Young |
| 97 | Model Collector Magazine in category Models The new edition of Model Collector Magazine contains an article on service vehicle diecast models. |
06/01/2011 | Damon |
| 98 | Query regarding 189C, 203C-208C in category Central Fleet Owned Vehicles This is my first post - I'm looking for information on the dimensions of the Leyland Cub trolleybus breakdown tenders based on the Leyland SKZ1 chassis - with a view to making a 1/43rd scale model. Does anyone know what their wheelbase was [or cab width] or any other useful dimensions. The small LT Cub buses were 15'6'' WB but I doubt whether that would apply to these small trucks. [in fact they are probably much shorter than the bus -perhaps nearer 9'WB?] |
02/11/2010 | Arun |
| 99 | VANGUARDS Ford Transit in category Models Looks like Vanguards are doing a Mk 1 Ford Transit with a diesel front. Ripe for some service vehicle applications and just what the Doctor ordered. Should please our Master, Transit-Tommy methinks. |
30/09/2010 | Damon |
| 100 | TfL Cycle Hire support vehicles in category Other Companies Although I don't plan to add them to the database, the vehicles operated in support of the TfL/Barclays Cycle Hire scheme may be of interest to some people. All have fleetnumbers in the same position as central fleet SVs, while the Nissan and Alke vehicles have a white and two-tone blue livery somewhat similar to LUL's. I will list those that I have noted below. If you have any additions, please post as a reply and I will update the list. Alke ATX electric flatbed mini-truck A01 MX10GWC A02 MX10GVN A03 MX10GVZ A04 ? A05 MX10GVO A06 MX10NHA A07 MX10GVY A08 MX10GVW A09 MX10GWA A10 MX10NGZ A11+ ? anon MX10LVT Ford Focus (hatchback unless noted) F01 ? F02 ? F03 ? F04 MF59AEW black F05 MV59MXZ black F06 ? F07 ? F08 MV59MUW silver F09 LG08NXS silver estate F10 MV59NDK black F11+ ? Ford Mondeo saloon (silver with blue skirt) M01 BJ60GKX M02 BJ60GKO M03 BJ60GXZ M04 BJ60GFK M05 BJ60GVA M06 BJ60GKY M07+ ? Nissan NV200 van N01 BJ10KPV N02 BJ10FPE N03 BK10EBV N04 BK10WAO N05 BG10FPN N06 BK10ECX N07 N08 BJ10FTE N09 BJ10FPP N10+ ? Bicycle trailers VT1-VT16 +? Ford Transit 'standard' vans BD61TFU BD61YAG BD61YBJ BD61YBN BD61YBY BD61YFA BT61KHP Ford Transit Box Vans BG61KDU BG61KPK BF12TYD BF12UAK BF12UEC BF12UEE BF12UFW BF12UFZ BF12ZZM BN12AEA BN12AEC BN12AEY BN12AKF BN12AMV BN12ANF BN12HZH BN12JDF BN12JTX BF63LYR Fiat Ducato Box Vans LJ14FTP LJ14FUT LJ14FUU The bicycles themselves have 5 digit 'fleetnumbers'. |
25/08/2010 | Thomas Young |
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